Transcript of Mark Virkler with Sid Roth
Is there a supernatural dimension, a world beyond the one we know? Is there life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? Sid Roth has spent over 35 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid for this edition of It’s Supernatural.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest was a pastor for ten years of a spiritual congregation and never heard the voice of God and he got desperate, and he had a visitation and he was given four keys that he says a hundred percent of the people that will do what he says can hear God as well as him, if not better. Anyone interested? I’m so excited to talk to Dr. Mark Virkler because Dr. Virkler heard from God
supernatural on how every true believer can do what the Bible says could be normal, normal as defined by the Bible, hear God’s voice daily for themselves. Now there was a time, Mark, when you as a pastor in a spirit-filled church did not hear God’s voice. What did you do about it?
MARK: I struggled for ten years and I tried everything that I thought would work. I read more scripture. That didn’t work. I fasted longer. That didn’t work. I asked people who heard God’s voice, “What does it sound like?” They said, “Well you just know that you know.” And I said, “No, I don’t know, which is why I’m asking you. That doesn’t help me at all. Tell me what his voice sounds like.” And no one could explain what God’s voice sounded like, and everything I
tried didn’t work. I went to Bible college, got a degree, I got ordained as a minister. All those things are supposed to work, I thought.
SID: So he got desperate and he decided, I’m going to take a year and do nothing but pray that I hear God’s voice and do as much study as I can. And he got desperate, and as he got desperate, about six months in, suddenly what happened?
MARK: The Lord woke me up about five o’clock in the morning with a booming bass voice, which is the only time in my entire life I heard a booming bass. But he said, “Mark, get up. I’m going to teach you to hear my voice.” And I bolted straight up in bed, I went over to my office and I sat down with my Bible, and he led me to Habakkuk 2:1 and 2, and he showed me four things that Habakkuk did that allowed him to hear the voice of God, to see vision and to write
out page after page of what God was saying to him.
SID: Let me tell you what happened when he started hearing God’s voice. Let’s start with your marriage. What happened to your marriage?
MARK: Well my wife said that her marriage improved greatly when I began to hear God’s voice.
SID: I could understand that.
MARK: And it’s because, you know, the Lord in my journal would say, “Mark,” he would say, “love your wife.” And I’d say, “I’m going to as soon as I fix her.” And he said, “No, I didn’t say to fix her. I said love your wife.” I said, “I’m going to as soon as I fix her.” He said, “Mark, love your wife.” Fifty times he told me to love my wife just the way she was without trying to change her personality, make her more like me. He said, “She’s fine the way she is.” And I mean, this is
like Christianity 101. You just honor people and love them.
SID: Okay. Your children, how did it affect your relationship there, or with them?
MARK: Well at that point, we had brought a teenage girl into our home, like a foster child. She had run away from her parents’ home and her parents went to our church, and they let us bring her into our home. She’s breaking all the household rules, acting very rebellious and I’m really upset with her. And I wanted to just kind of punch her out in Christian love and say, “Look, if you’re going to stay here, you need to keep these rules.” And so before I did, I journaled and I
said, “Lord, what about this girl?” And as the Lord spoke, he said, “She’s very insecure.” I said, “Really?” And he said, “Yeah. I want you to love her unconditionally.” And I said, “Really?” Because I had a lot of conditions. Here’s my rules. Here’s my rules.
SID: You were going to do the exact opposite of what God knew was the key to her heart.
MARK: Yeah. Because I was looking at the outside façade of rebellion. God was looking at the wounded heart of insecurity and saying, “Minister to her heart, not her outer façade.” And so he had me [relate] to the true part of her. It made me a better parent and instantly improved my relationships with everybody.
SID: Okay. How did it change you in ministry?
MARK: Well in ministry, I learned that I could preach from flow, I could counsel from flow, I could teach from flow. And the Lord said, “Mark,” he said, “your teaching style will be transformed…”
SID: Excuse me. You’re using a term, “flow.” What is that?
MARK: Flow, that is one of those four keys that God taught me that morning. He says his voice sounds like flowing thoughts and his vision comes as flowing pictures. And the scripture verse backs it up. Jesus said, “Out of your inner most being shall flow rivers of living water.” This, he spoke in the Spirit. So when we want to tune to the Holy Spirit with this, we sense him as a flow. So flowing words, flowing thoughts is his voice. Flowing visions are, flowing pictures are his vision. And I didn’t know that because I had no theology from flow. So I began to speak from flow. I began to think in flow. I began to counsel from flow.
SID: So how did your messages get different as a result?
MARK: Well the more fun-loving and less rigid or less control, less law, instead of, here’s a Bible verse, see if you can keep it and if you cannot, I’ll beat you and I’ll whip, you know, I noticed Jesus wasn’t doing that with me. He would never. And I asked him. I said, “Don’t you want to hit me for sinning here?” He said, “No, it’s covered by the blood. It’s fine. It’s a learning curve mistake. Don’t worry about it. Let’s press on. It’s fine.” And because he treated me that
way, I began to preach that way. And yeah, we make some mistakes. That’s okay. It’s learning curve mistakes. And I didn’t preach harsh law anymore. Here’s a law, try to keep it. I’d preach who Jesus was inside of you, learning to attune to him, and flow in and out of him.
SID: His Word says, “My sheep, hear my voice.” And you were going to hear God’s voice. We’ll be right back. We’ll be right back to It’s Supernatural.
SID: You know, one of the things I notice about Dr. Virkler is he smiles a lot. He laughs a lot. Were you always this way?
MARK: No. I was very, very stuck in the mud and very sober, and very control-oriented. And when I began to journal and use vision, and I saw Jesus, he was laughing hilariously all the time. And I said, “Lord, you know, I’m so uptight here.” He said, “Mark, relax. I got everything under control. It’s okay.” And he taught me to laugh.
SID: Now actually, I’ve heard from a medical viewpoint, laughing releases chemicals inside the body that heal you.
MARK: It’s absolutely healing, and we as Christians, we need to laugh. A merry heart does good like medicine. It heals our body. So he wants us to be healthy, so he draws us into laughter.
SID: Okay. Tell me again what Jesus said to you and then the four supernatural keys that came from Heaven on how to hear God’s voice. And by the way, is this something for everyone or just special people like you, you’re a minister.
MARK: This is for everybody. All right. I’ve taught it from five year olds up to 92-year-olds. They’ve all heard the voice of God. If they will use these four keys we guarantee them. They will hear the voice of God. And it’s worked for 35 years, all over world on all the continents I’ve taught it on.
SID: Tell me what God told you and what are the four keys.
MARK: All right. So the Lord said, “I’m going to teach you to hear my voice.” So he took me to Habakkuk 2:1 and 2. Now Habakkuk is a prophet, he could hear the voice of God.
SID: That’s what makes him a prophet.
MARK: That’s what makes him a prophet. And so he says, “I’m going to my guard post,” which means, go have a quiet place to get alone with God. And I think all of us knew that was important. All right. So I quiet myself down. And then Habakkuk said, that was key number one, “Just quiet yourself down” with some soft soaking music. Great way to do it, I mean, King David, he used soft music in the background 24/7, just beautiful worship music. It’s a great way
to quiet yourself down. And then Habakkuk said, “I’m going to keep watch to see what the Lord is going to speak.” And I said, what? You should be saying, I’m going to listen to hear what the Lord is going to speak. I mean, because what are you trying to see? I mean, when I’m trying to hear God’s voice, I’m not trying to see anything, I’m trying to hear it. And the Lord said, “Mark, vision is a very important part of prayer and you should take the eyes of your heart, and you should pray over them like Paul prayed. I prayed that the eyes of your heart would be enlightened. And you should fix them on Jesus, and you should see Jesus present with you.”
SID: Wait a second. This sounds like visualization, which is a new age concept.
MARK: Right, exactly and it might also be a biblical concept. You just never know.
SID: Give me a scripture.
MARK: Well how about Acts 2:25, David. David says, “I behold the Lord always in my presence. He’s at my right hand and I will not be shaken.” And in Psalm 16:8, where he’s quoting that from, he says, “I have set the Lord at my right hand.” So that means, he took and decided to picture the Lord right there.
SID: And just because the new age copies biblical things doesn’t mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.
MARK: Well the fact they copied that means it was worth enough to copy. You don’t copy one dollar bills. You only copy twenties and fifties. So I don’t throw anything out to be copied. I find what’s the bill value, let’s do it. We say, “A picture is worth a thousand words.” So maybe if I see Jesus here next to me, it might have a thousand times more power to impact my life than just thinking he’s next to me. And so I’m going to turn my theology into pictures.
SID: I have to ask you, what does Jesus look like when you visualize him?
MARK: Well for me, he has long flowing white robes. He’s got sandals on his feet, very gentle, loving countenance, eyes that twinkle, big smile on his face. That’s what I normally see. All right. And when I first started seeing vision, I only saw him from the shoulders on down.
SID: I was going to ask you that because many people have never had a vision of Jesus. In fact, most believers never have. So you kind of started without even seeing his face.
MARK: That’s right. You know, and then after a week or two, I did begin to see his eyes twinkling and a big smile on his lips and other people have told me the same thing. They start with his shoulders on down, and as you move into intimacy and you use the eyes of your heart purposefully, more appears. And the more intensely you look, the more you see, too. And you know, we define this as godly imagination. We say, godly imagination is picturing those things
that God says are so. So I’m not afraid of godly imagination. I have a definition for it. If God says Jesus is with me, I can picture that and then I can do more than that. I can say, Holy Spirit, take over this scene. Bring it alive so it’s more than a godly imagination. Let me step into a flowing vision. And as I release it, I step into a flowing vision and I step from a godly imagination into a vision, and I do it all the time. And everyone who is listening can do that
every single day of their life, and they can see vision all the time.
SID: Now Mark talks about something that is so intriguing to me, because I’ve heard a lot of other people talk about this, and that is, he can go into the Throne Room of God for godly wisdom. How would you like some godly wisdom on some of the things going on in your life right now? Tell me about this going into the Throne Room.
MARK: Well a prophet said to me, “Well why don’t you ask the Lord where he wants to meet you.” And I said, okay. And I said, “Lord, where do you want to meet me?” He said, “I’d like to meet you in Heaven.” I said, “Why?” He said, “Because I live there.” And I said, “Well of course, you want to show me around your home, right?” And so it’s a matter of selecting a different picture. So instead of me deciding to picture of Jesus at the Sea of Galilee, I decided to
picture him in Heaven there with him, because I am in Heaven. So are you. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places.
SID: That’s right. The scripture says that we’re in two places at one time.
SID: We’re here and according to Ephesians, we’re there.
MARK: So, exactly. And so I can either think that I’m seated with him or I can see myself seated with him. If it’s okay to think it, it’s okay to see it.
SID: Tell me about, and because I really relate to his, seeing all the things that are coming on this earth right now. Just hearing the news every day, you can get to be a very negative person, and this is what happened to Mark. What did you do about that?
MARK: I was looking at Washington, D.C. in my mind’s eye and I was saying, I don’t like what I see. I’m very, I see a lot of evils and improper behavior.
SID: You don’t have to tell us. We all see the same thing.
MARK: And I was full of anger at what I saw, and I was full of fear. And I thought, well those aren’t gifts of the Holy Spirit, those aren’t fears of the Holy Spirit. There’s something wrong. And so I said, “Lord, what’s wrong?” He said, “Well you’re looking at Washington, D.C. and you don’t see me there.” I said, “You’re right. I just see politicians.” He said, “Well you’re not seeing truth, because the truth is I’m everywhere.” I said, “Oh you did mention that somewhere in the Bible, did you.” And so obviously, I’m looking at a picture that contains a lie, which is Jesus isn’t there. So let’s throw it out and get a picture that contains the truth. And I said, “Jesus, where are you in Washington?” And this is my morning devotions, and I looked for a vision, and a picture floats into my mind of Jesus enthroned on a throne, above Washington, D.C., his flowing robes flowing down over Congress and the White House, his Glory streaming down over Congress and the White House. And he said in my heart, he said, “Mark, I rule in Washington, D.C.”
SID: Do you know what I find so fascinating? Once you understand these supernatural keys to hearing God’s voice, people, have you ever seen a pastor stand up and give a prophecy or an evangelist stand up and have words of knowledge, and you said, boy, I would like to hear that God. If people use these supernatural keys, can they flow in the gifts of the Spirit?
SID: I mean, just an average person.
MARK: Yes, they absolutely can. It’s incredibly simple. If we make this harder than a child can do, it’s not Christianity. So when you’re checking out and the lady is checking you out at the grocery store, you can say, “Lord Jesus, I know you’re standing next to this lady.” And you just picture the Lord next to her and say, “What do you want to say to this lady right now?” You tune to flow and the flowing thought that comes to you, share it with them, a word of encouragement, a word of love, a word of life, the flowing thought that comes, and you speak it. SID: But what is the difference between your own thoughts and a flowing thought. Explain this.
MARK: Well my own thoughts are connected. They’re analytical, they’re cognitive. I say, hmmm, two plus two is, I think it’s four. That’s connected lineal thinking. Flowing thought, I don’t build it myself. It just comes, it becomes a life of its own. And if it’s coming from the Holy Spirit, it lines up with the names of Jesus. It’s wonderful comfort, it’s counsel, it’s light.
SID: So you’re telling me you don’t even have to think for this flow to occur?
MARK: No. When you think, you cut it off.
SID: Okay. That leads to the fourth key, journaling. What is journaling?
MARK: Journaling is, God said to Habakkuk, he said, “Inscribe the vision.” Get your out pencil and write it down. So I use my keyboard and I say, “Lord, what do you want to say to me?” And then I tune to flow, and when the flow kicks in, I’ll just write. I just type or write.
SID: Why do you bother writing? Why don’t you just remember?
MARK: Ah, because if you write, you can write in faith for five or ten, or 15 minutes, and for God to talk me for 15 minutes, and I can get a page or two. And because I don’t have to test it now, because I’m going to write in faith, because I know I can test it later once I’ve got it all written out.
SID: How do you test it?
MARK: I test it by making sure it’s compatible to scripture, alright, and make sure it lines up with the names of Jesus and the fruit of the spirit, you know, and the gifts of the spirit, and not the name of Satan or the fruit of Satan. Alright. It can’t be accusative, negative, destructive or a thief. Alright. So who does it line up with? The Bible says, “The mouth of two or three witnesses, everything is confirmed.” So I even bring it up to my wife and a couple of others and
say, “Do you feel in your heart it came from God?” If they say yes, then I’m going to run with it at that point in time.
SID: Tell me someone that used these four supernatural keys and began to operate in, say, a gift of the Spirit. Pick one person out.
MARK: Well one lady is a lady named Tara and she had become a tremendous blogger where she could see amazing visions. I mean, way beyond the visions I see, more precise, more detail. And she blogs them out, she sends them out and it just opened up that entire ministry to her of seeing in the spirit. Other people have had dreams. To other people, it’s a dream. And I’ve had a person say, you know, all the gifts of Spirit just became alive within them once they learned to tune to flow and hear the voice of God.
SID: You said something so profound to me about, whatever you focus on, it grows. Explain that.
MARK: This is a reigning word God gave to me many years ago. He said, “Mark, whatever you fix your eyes on, grows within you, and whatever grows within you, you become.” And at that point in my, life I was fixing my eyes on my sinfulness and saying, oh Mark, you’re a miserable sinner. And so sinfulness grew within me and I became more sinful. And then to overcome it, I would fix my eyes on biblical law and legalism would grow within me, and I’d become a legalist. And he said, “Don’t do that.” He said, “‘Fix your eyes on Jesus,’ Hebrews 12:1 and 2, ‘and let Jesus grow within you’ and you become Christ-like.'” And so the year that I focused on abiding in Christ, seeing Jesus with me all the time, he pointed out at the end of the year that sin that I battled with all of my life had fallen away as a byproduct of letting Jesus grow within me.
SID: Okay. I want you to flow right now and pray a supernatural prayer of impartation for those that are watching.
MARK: Alright. Alright. Let me pray for you right now. Father, I just release for those that are watching to those with open hearts, I release to you right now the faith that God has given to me to believe that there’s a river within, which is a river of God, which does flow, and giving flowing thoughts and flowing visions, God’s voice and God’s vision. So I release faith into your heart right now and I say, faith, arise, faith arise, faith arise. And I’d like you to just put your
hands out and say, “I receive that gift of faith, I receive that gift of faith and I choose to believe the river within me and the flow within me is the river of God, as the Bible has declared.” And as you make that your declaration, you will walk, you will walk in that river and you will live in that river, and God will be glorified.
SID: And of course, the main key before you to activate those four keys is to know God. This is eternal life that you might know him. I want you to do what the Bible says. Repeat this prayer out loud because the Bible says, “If you confess with your mouth, you’ll believe in your heart and you will be rescued.” Say, dear God, out loud, dear God, I’m a sinner. Please forgive me. I believe the blood of Jesus washes away my sins and I am clean. And now that I am clean, I
boldly proclaim that Jesus is my Messiah and Lord. Jesus, live inside of me. Be my Lord. Amen.